Madeleine Dean Spars With Barr – ‘Protestors’ or ‘Rioters’?
Madeleine Dean (D, PA-4), who represents Narberth and almost half of Lower Merion, questioned Attorney General William Barr on Tuesday (July 27), during a House Judiciary Committee Hearing.
Dean: Good afternoon, Attorney General Barr. I would like to discuss some different issues regarding June 1st in Lafayette Square, where as you know, peaceful protesters had gathered over days and hours, to discuss civil rights, to discuss the heinous murder of George Floyd and to call for equality and justice.
When asked about the use of force displayed in the video against the protesters, at Lafayette Square, you stated that your attitude was “get it done.” Let’s look at what you got done.
If you’ll take a look at the timeline we have compiled, we see that you were spotted in Lafayette Square at 6:10 PM, that Monday evening. The president was scheduled to speak in the Rose Garden at 6:15. The Park Police began to disperse protesters at roughly 6:33. President Trump started his speech at 6:43 and finished at 6:50.
So, by 7:01, when the president was ready to walk across the street to take a photo in front of St. John’s Church, the square was cleared, and ready for him to go. Am I correct?
Barr: Yes
Dean: The timing is clear. Multiple local officials also confirmed the point of clearing the square. One safety official said, “it was as if the park police’s plan to move the perimeter had been ‘hurried up when the president needed to walk to church.’ “
And just today, congress heard testimony from Adam DeMarco, a National Guard Officer, deployed at Lafayette Square, confirming that he had expected the square to be cleared after the curfew, after 7:00 PM.
Barr: I’m sorry, who was that?
Dean: Adam DeMarco, National Guard
Barr, interrupting: attempts to speak
Dean, interrupting: I didn’t have a question for you sir. In the afternoon, you told us that you learned of the president’s interest in crossing the square to go to the church. Is it your opinion Mr. Barr, that clearing protesters from Lafayette Square, which local officials were told to hurry up, moments before the president’s photo op. with the borrowed bible, in front of a church, was coincidence? Is this timing coincidence?
Barr: I believe it is. Yes, post hoc ergo propter hoc, you know, is that what you’re saying?
Dean: (Inaudible) the Latin. In a related matter. When used about the use of pepper bombs
Barr, interrupting: It wasn’t a coincidence in this sense, if you would permit me Congresswoman. Okay, as I said, I use the analogy ofMaCarthur at Leyte Gulf.
Dean, interrupting: We heard that, thank you.
Barr, interrupting: Yeah? Okay so.
Dean, interrupting: Mr. Attorney General
Barr, interrupting: He couldn’t have walked
Dean, interrupting: Coincidence. Fine. We’ll assume that was all coincidence.
Barr, interrupting: I’ve already explained that it had been planned all day.
Dean, interrupting: Mr. Attorney General
Barr, interrupting: Uh huh,
Dean, interrupting: The time is mine. We’ve waited a long time for you to come here. The time is mine.
Barr, interrupting: You’ve waited to talk to me like this? You didn’t need to wait so long.
Dean, interrupting: When asked about the use of pepper bombs, fired at Americans in Lafayette Square, you said, “No, there were no chemical irritants. Pepper spray is not a chemical irritant. It’ not chemical.”
Barr: Well everything is chemical. I was referring to a dichotomy in these kinds of things between chemical compounds in naturally occurring substances.
Dean, interrupting: Mr. Attorney General, I’m reclaiming my time. There are rules by which we operate here. I would ask you to respect them. Take a look at the screen. I placed on the screen for reference as you are aware, how your department describes pepperballs, used on Americans in Lafayette Square. A 2009 Justice Department noted that “the PepperBall systems accuracy and accompanying blunt trauma impact made it an ideal chemical dispensing system.” So while you in a quote said it as not chemical, you today confirmed that it is chemical, and you are aware of your department’s policy. Are you not?
Barr: What policy?
Dean: The one I just provided to you.
Barr: What does it say
Dean: Finally
Barr, interrupting: Laughing
Dean: Perhaps you weren’t listening
Barr: I didn’t see the policy. What was the policy in there?
Dean, interrupting: Clearly you weren’t listening. Fine. Whether or not you authorized the use of PepperBalls –
Barr, interrupting: The, the –
Dean, interrupting: I did not ask you a question yet sir!
Barr, attempting to interrupt
Dean, interrupting: I would ask you to please refrain from interrupting me. We watched horrifying videos played across the news and social media, showing that these chemical irritants were used on protestors. So yes or no – and this is a yes or no, sir – have you begun an investigation of the use of excessive force in Lafayette Square?
Dean, interrupting: I would ask you to please refrain from interrupting me. We watched horrifying videos played across the news and social media, showing that these chemical irritants were used on protestors. So yes or no – and this is a yes or no, sir – have you begun an investigation of the use of excessive force in Lafayette Square?
Dean, interrupting: I would ask you to please refrain from interrupting me. We watched horrifying videos played across the news and social media, showing that these chemical irritants were used on protestors. So yes or no – and this is a yes or no, sir – have you begun an investigation of the use of excessive force in Lafayette Square?
Barr: I think the I.G. [Inspector General] is looking at everything related to, you know, the anti-rioting operation.
Dean, interrupting: So the answer is yes. You are investigating.
Barr, interrupting: The I.G. is investigating.
Dean: I will hope that he does not get fired. Tragically, what happened in Lafayette Square is no longer an isolated incident. The use of chemical irritants has been used in more than 90 cities. My colleague showed you the video of the Navy vet being pepper-sprayed and beaten, his bones broken. Whether or not you thought this was appropriate at the time, have you now called for law enforcement to stop using these chemical irritants on protestors, yes or no?
Barr: Pepper Spray? No. I think it’s a very important non-lethal option.
Dean: For protestors
Barr: No, for rioters.
Dean: That was my question, for protestors?
Barr: No for rioters
Barr: I think the I.G. [Inspector General] is looking at everything related to, you know, the anti-rioting operation.
Dean, interrupting: So the answer is yes. You are investigating.
Barr, interrupting: The I.G. is investigating.
Dean: I will hope that he does not get fired. Tragically, what happened in Lafayette Square is no longer an isolated incident. The use of chemical irritants has been used in more than 90 cities. My colleague showed you the video of the Navy vet being pepper-sprayed and beaten, his bones broken. Whether or not you thought this was appropriate at the time, have you now called for law enforcement to stop using these chemical irritants on protestors, yes or no?
Barr: Pepper Spray? No. I think it’s a very important non-lethal option.
Dean: For protestors
Barr: No, for rioters.
Dean: That was my question, for protestors?
Barr: No for rioters.
Dean: Sir, America was founded on the principles of free speech
Barr, interrupting: When people resist law enforcement, they’re not peaceful.
Dean, interrupting: Excuse me, I’m reclaiming my time. I’m surprised at your lack of respect for a member of Congress.
And it’s always nice to hear a guy who said he hadn’t registered for the draft, wax on poetically about General MacArthur.
I’m afraid Barr got the better of all you Dems during that farce of a hearing.